The beginning of the journey

Afghanistan’s Hazara people, targeted by the Taliban, still have a strong reason to seek protection from countries like Australia, writes Michelle Dimasi in Kabul
06 October 2010

EARLIER on the day I started writing this article my friend Nafisa and I drove by taxi through Kabul. It was the beginning of Eid, the three days of celebration that mark the end of Ramadan, and in the streets the people in their bright new clothes contrasted with the dusty roads and debilitated buildings. Among piles of rubbish and rubble, boys chased one another with the toy guns they’d bought with their Eid money. At one point a plastic yellow bullet flew through the open window of our taxi, and when we arrived at Nafisa’s home her seven-year-old son greeted us armed with a plastic Kalashnikov about half his height, complete with a detachable dagger.

Full story in ....

Plan to Woo Taliban Foot Soldiers Stalls

Six months after Afghanistan’s foreign backers agreed to generous funding for a reintegration effort, so far only $200,000 has been spent by the United States and little or nothing by other donors.

Full story in the New York Times

How Are the Suiciding Taliban Nurtured?

Watching this film, I was thinking on what will happen when Religion is mixed with ignorance, political agenda and poverty of people. They are dying for a sacred cause of which they know nothing. Who is responsible?... And who is/are to answer this question? .... We'd better keep thinking on this question.

To see the film, please follow the following link:

Republic of Silence

In Bold Display, Taliban Order Stoning Deaths

By ROD NORDLAND
Published: August 16, 2010

KABUL, Afghanistan — The Taliban on Sunday ordered their first public executions by stoning since their fall from power nine years ago, killing a young couple who had eloped, according to Afghan officials and a witness.

The punishment was carried out by hundreds of the victims’ neighbors in a village in northern Kunduz Province, according to Nadir Khan, 40, a local farmer and Taliban sympathizer, who was interviewed by telephone. Even family members were involved, both in the stoning and in tricking the couple into returning after they had fled.

Mr. Khan said that as a Taliban mullah prepared to read the judgment of a religious court, the lovers, a 25-year-old man named Khayyam and a 19-year-old woman named Siddiqa, defiantly confessed in public to their relationship. “They said, ‘We love each other no matter what happens,’ ” Mr. Khan said. (See full story in NYT)

CIA making secret payments to members of Karzai administration

By Greg Miller and Joshua Partlow
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, August 27, 2010; 12:14 AM

The CIA is making secret payments to multiple members of President Hamid Karzai's administration, in part to maintain sources of information in a government in which the Afghan leader is often seen as having a limited grasp of developments, according to current and former U.S. officials. (full story in ....)

One Hundred & Ninety Days - My presentation (2)

Today is my presentation for the fellows. So far, Ana Paula Hernandez from Mexico, Shba Cahndran from India, Marvin Rees from the UK, and Alexy Navalny from Moscow have given their presentations. All have shown great success both in their works and in crossing them to the fellows. Today is mine and Diana Tsui from Hong Kong.

***

I have some short notes in mind: a brief introduction of myself; a picture of my country and its contemporary history; and then my vision and works at Marefat. I will give more chance to the questions of the fellows.

***

Three main snapshots in my country’s ongoing image: political instability; extreme poverty; tribal culture and customs.

***

People in my country are suffering from the lack of trust. Firstly the Communists came with big promises that will be fulfilled by the government. They failed and put the country in dark bloody disasters. Then Islamists came showering people with all their subjective claims and abstract concepts and system of values. They also proved evil.
Now, democracy and civil norms of life is being imported to the country. It is appealing, but with less room on the culture and social structure of the community, it is also facing great challenges. If situation goes the same as it is now, the country will be plunged back to the anarchy and fragmentation.

***

Our experience is based on the current realities of the ground. We are optimistic, but not unrealistic. People should regain their trust. It is difficult but there is no alternative. For the time being every thing is dependant on the foreign aids and assistance. Tomorrow the situation will change. The international community will decide to decrease its attention to Afghanistan. What is going to happen then?

***

Education is the main key to help people discover themselves. There are some key points:
1) people should regard education as their own prime need;
2) people should regard education as a long-term necessity not a short-term project;
3) people should invest on education based on their own homegrown resources, not merely on foreign aids and assistance;
4) people should let their boys and girls like to get education;
5) civic education should be included in the whole curricula of the schools;
6) culture of violence and hatred should strongly be addressed and talked about;
7) every bits of education should be translated into practical impressions so as the people should find the tangible benefits of going to school and having books on their hands.

***

We started our school in Pakistan at the peak of Civil War and dark rule of Islamist parties and the Taliban. We drafted textbooks of our own. Marefat became the education shelter for more than 6000 students in three main cities of Pakistan: Rawalpindi, Attock, and Peshawar. By the fall of the Taliban we moved to Kabul and started everything from the zero. All our students were 35 in a four-room bombed-out muddy building. Our asset was hardly more than 35000 Pakistani Rupees, less than $$600.
Our first step was talking with the community. We encouraged them to not only send their kids, boys and girls, to school but also contribute in their education too.
We gradually succeeded in our goal. The trust of the community along with the motivation of the staff that we had, helped Marefat to flourish and now, after seven years, we have more than 2500 students, 102 teachers, and have sent five rounds of our graduates to the university with nearly 97% success. Tens of our students have got scholarships in different countries. Hundreds more have become successful contributors to their family breadwinning group.

***

Above all, Marefat has succeeded in developing a new vision among the community. The poverty-stricken ethnically suppressed Hazara community, is now proud of having their kids in school where humanism, democracy, human rights, social studies, liberal interpretation of the faith is part of its regular curricula. Last year, a group of fanatical clerics drafted a controversial law which violated most of the women rights. Marefat students were among the first groups to oppose that law and launched a protest against that going to parliament. At the same day, the fanatical clerics stormed the school called for my execution and burning of the school. They issued decrees and staged public instigations through all the mosques. But none of these attempts could harm our social prestige and credibility. We continued our school just one day after the attack. No more than three months later, the pressure on the president came to an encouraging end: eighteen articles including one whole chapter was totally removed for the law, and around 72 amendments were applied to that. This is a success and a great development on the ground.

***

Still we have big challenges ahead. The democratic growth is nascent and highly vulnerable. Institutional guarantee for the developments are badly missing. Government is not only corrupt but also alien to the ongoing changes of the community as well as all over the world.
Politics in my country is strongly based on ethnocentric assumptions. Due to that no one cares about the harm that Taliban will pose to the civil development and human rights of the people. They mostly think about the return of the totalitarian power. Besides all our works, we have to be cautious of this threat too.

One Hundred & Ninety Days - First impression (1)

What a great privilege and experience as part of the World Fellows 2010! There are 14 other fellows from different parts of the world with great achievements in the field of their activities. All with high education and great visions have come to the YALE to be part of the international campaign for a better world.
My acquaintance with the fellows 2010 is an interesting story. I was walking along the dusty street of Dashti Barchi, in a remote forgotten part of Kabul in Police District 13. Parwiz Barhimi, an awarded student of the YALE who was teaching at AUAF (American University for Afghanistan), was besides me. Just one day before we had a meeting with Rory Stewart in Marefat High School. Parwiz returned to me saying: Don’t you want to come to the YALE? I was shocked. “No kidding!” I said. “No, I’m serious”, he replied.

***

It was the beginning of my information about the World Fellows Program. He talked a lot about the program and encouraged me to apply for that. He was pretty sure that I will be selected.
I started searching for detailed information. Went to the YALE website and read almost many parts of the sections related to the WFP.
Parwiz promised to nominate me and asked me to work on the essays and finding some who should recommend me for the program.
In about two or days, every thing was done: I made the essays and found Ronald Neumann, the former American Ambassador, Lady Frances D’Souza, from the House of Lords in the UK, and Rory Stewart at Harvard, to recommend me. All of them were too generous to accept sending recommendations.
That was it. I was counting all bits of news about the program. Once I got the email to be short-listed among 82 applicants, the target seemed to be closer. Then, interview,... and finally, the letter of award!

***

Now, I am in New Haven, sitting in my room, looking from the window at the green trees with rain-washed leaves. Rain started yesterday and has continued non-stop till now. It is 06:41am. I have been awake since 03:20am. Still I have problem with my sleep hours. I am accustomed with Kabul time. However, I don’t feel tired. The weather is energizing. Moreover, the thought on how to use the best of my time and opportunities, is also thrilling.

***

I will keep posting my daily impression in this page. Please follow me and let me have your words and comments. You can be my indirect mentor…. If you had time, please visit my Farsi blog too. Most of my writings come there. Still I feel home with Farsi then English!

Meeting with NATO advisors in the MoFA

Yesterday I was invited to an important meeting with the close advisors of General Petraeus in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The question was the security situation in Afghanistan, peace talks with the Taliban, withdrawal of NATO, and future of Afghanistan.
The session was headed by Daud Muradian, Head of Strategic Studies of MoFA. There were two other Afghans too: one General Hadi Khalid, ex-deputy minister for the ministry on interior and a security expert; the other, Najia Hanafi, a women rights activist.
NATO fellows had specific questions. Every one expressed their views and concerns which were interesting and educative. The session went for around two and a half hours.

My points were as following:
A. Who the Taliban are and what is to be done with them:
I categorized the Taliban insurgents into four layers:
1) The top leaders with ideological claims. They regard themselves as the soldiers of God with the mission of implementing Shariah Law and establishing “Pure Islamic Government”. They regard themselves in the right path and call others as the “Pagans”, “Kafir” and “Enemies of Pashtun and Pashtunwali (the codes of Pashtun)”. They are in close link with Alquaida and regard that as their religious duty. They may have a wrong belief, but it is very strong and they expect all their rewards from the God. They want nothing other than the content of God in the Heaven and the ruling of Sharia on the earth.
2) The second layer with ‘political agendas’ and ‘religious slogans’. They are not confined to Cleric Taliban. There are a lot of figures who have the dream of monopolistic/totalitarian political power. They are pressing for more shares in the system. They are not happy with the idea of democracy and devolution of power. They want to have the old model of authority based on ethnocentric assumption. They may be shaved or unshaved. They may have tie or turban. Doesn’t matter. They want to have their traditional clinch on power and apply their wish at will.
3) The trouble-makers and bandits who profit from the insecurity. They are drug lords, highway robbers, killers, thieves, and all other kinds of criminals.
4) The oppressed ordinary people on the ground. They are the victims of corrupt administration. They have been suffering from the retaliation, corruption, intimidation, poverty, insecurity, etc. They have no choice other than finding shelter under the Taliban gun/money/religious demise.

Any of these layers need a separate solution:
1) For the first ideological group we can have no means other than providing the people with good message of our democratic and civil values. This has not (or at least rarely) been done in the past. The president calls his international allies as “Kharejian” (the foreigners/outsiders). What does it cross to the people other than saying that Taliban are right and ‘foreigners’ are wrong? The message is clear for the ordinary people: The NATO soldiers are not sacrificing their lives and time for our security and betterment. They are invaders, and they have to leave the country. The term “Kharejian” has the negative meaning in Afghan culture. It is not showing friendship or loyalty. It shows being stranger and alien. This is why the Taliban gets so strengthened and we are getting so weakened. We have not managed to cross even one simple message to the people: Taliban are not right when they are killing innocents, burning schools, beheading, spraying acids on the faces of the girls, making blind suicidal attacks… We have not said to the people that the international soldiers have come to save us from terror and insecurity. They are building schools to allow our kids learn and get education…. This is the conceptual gap that needs to be addressed. The terms such as “upset brothers” are not enough to counter Taliban misleading message for the villagers. “Upset brothers” cannot be blamed for their deeds at all!
2) For the second layer, we have to be ready for any kind of dialogue and political dealing. They have shown readiness to get integrated into the system. We have tens of them already in the system. They are ministers, MPs, governors, advisors, etc. They are not dangerous, but they want monopolistic power. You can address them with democratic political means. You can put them on the legal democratic procedure and ask them to gain their due share through sane political participation.
3) The third and fourth layers can only be addressed through good governance. Rule of law is their answer. When you have sane and sound government administration, you can maintain law and order and you can keep every thing in control. You cannot pay tolls and bribe to calm these layers. The ordinary villagers need safety, security and job. You have to reach them with your good authority. The bandits and criminals need to be caught and punished. You can do that with good police and good security forces.

B. Reconciliation or reintegration?
I said reconciliation means reaching to some sorts of agreement from both sides. Reintegration means bringing insurgents to the system and existing political structure. Now, president Karzai is insisting on reconciliation while the international community is aiming at reintegration. If we are to reconcile with the Taliban, what should we give to them to get their content and satisfaction? Their demands are clear: withdrawal of the “foreigners” and abolition of the constitution. Do we accept that? Our position has put us in a paradoxical status: Accepting that means that we have submitted to the Taliban. Rejecting that means there is no way to deal and compromise or “reconcile”. Taliban feel themselves in the victorious position. It is the government who offers peace and reconciliation to appease them. This is the government who calls them as “upset brothers” and they answer its call with repeated suicidal attacks, bomb blasts, and excommunicating decrees. We should fix our minds prior to offering reintegration or reconciliation to the Taliban.

C. Is accepting the Constitution a good condition for peace talk with Taliban?
I said, the third article of the Constitution says that no law can be passed if it is opposing Islamic Sharia. Now it is not as dangerous. Because we have different interpretation from Sharia that can be adjusted to the civil, democratic and human rights of the people too. But if it is mentioned as the condition for Peace Talk with the Taliban, that can be highly dangerous. Let’s say the Taliban may accept that and come to the government. What will happen then? … They will interpret Sharia and will abolish all the democratic and civil norms as “anti Sharia”. Who is then to oppose them?
I said this is not a good and wise condition. Sharia in the third article of the Constitution is the base and backbone of every other article in this document. The government is bringing the Taliban with this pre-judgment that they are “right” and we are “wrong”. Hence, they will be the one to interpret Sharia not we. Sharia leaves no ground for women rights nor does it accept democratic norms and values.

D. What will happen after the withdrawal of NATO?
I said, nine years ago, we were not well-known. But now, we are. We have worked and talked and campaigned for the new democratic process and now every one of us is famous for our works and activities. Still we are not at the position to help ourselves. We are simply helpless when our government and president are submitting at any cost to the traditional fanaticism. Let me ask what will happen to me and my hundreds of kids who have believed in the process and who have worked and come forward? …
Can we fight? … What are the means? …
Should we submit? … What is the guarantee for our safety and security? …
Can we flee? … To Where?
I gave the example of fanatical Shiite Clerics who attacked Marefat High School in 2009 because the students and teachers had opposed to the controversial Shiite Personal Law. Tomorrow if there is the rule of Taliban and Shariah, what will be the fate of these kids and teachers?
The same is the situation of the ethnic and religious minorities, the women, the media, the civil society activists, etc.

E. Can Afghan Army and Police stand on its own feet after the withdrawal of NATO?
I referred to the experience of Afghanistan after the withdrawal of the Soviets. Dr. Najibullah had a strong army of around 400,000. They resisted strongly, but only for three and a half years. They were not weak in terms of their military might. They were defeated in their ideology. The Jihadi forces came and toppled their regime at length. Tomorrow, by the current move of the government, we will have a strong army but it will have no faith and trust in its righteousness. It will be defeated by Taliban, because the Taliban are right and the government is regarded as wrong.


F. What is the solution?
I said, despite all dark pictures from the side of the government, the solution is not something difficult if we are to show will and determination. My suggestions are as follows:
1. We have to choose between the old and new Afghanistan. New Afghanistan is the big change in the lower ground. Millions of people are profiting only from the opportunity and context they are given. This new Afghanistan is much deserving and powerful than the old one.
2. Civil society should be supported. Civil society is the people of the country who have developed greatly after the fall of the Taliban. Health, education, job, good governance, rule of law is the main and right demand of the people. Paying attention to these demands means the supporting of the Civil Society.
3. Shifting our reliance from individuals to institutions. President Karzai is an individual. He is your friend today and your enemy tomorrow. You don’t have any means to hold him accountable.
4. Strengthening democratic institutions against traditional tribal institutions. Parliament, media group, political parties, civil society groups, and modern schools should be supported against tribal Jirgas, grey-headed elders, mosques and traditional Madrassas. Now more then 95% schedule of the president is full of his meeting with the old guys: elders, Jihadi leaders, drug lords, warlords, etc. This is a symptom of attempted fortification of the old system and undermining of the new generation.
5. Theoretical gap in crossing our due message to the people should be fixed. Tomorrow you are leaving Afghanistan. But your leaving should not be interpreted as your defeat and as the Taliban victory. You should not be regarded as the “foreigner”. You should be called and remembered as the loyal and sincere friend of people who have sacrificed their lives and time for the good of Afghans. Your withdrawal should not leave a negative message as if the Taliban have defeated you in your mission and values. It will enhance the wrong vision of this country that we have smashed all the invaders! This is not good, not true and not fair. You have to be hauled and saluted whenever you leave this country. It can be done and it should be done.
6. Don’t forget that we are not weaker than nine years ago. This is the government and the president who depicts everything as that. We are much and much stronger now. We have thousands and thousands of educated people that were missing nine years ago. We have tens of active democratic groups who didn’t exist nine years ago. We have the people who have experienced democracy, human rights, free environment, freedom of speech and expression, etc. These elements were not existing nine years ago. The notorious leaders and gangsters of nine years ago are no longer as powerful and justified among the population. New Afghanistan and new generation has come forward. We should trust them and we should help them gain the realm of leadership and management. We should not give ground for fanaticism, tribalism, prejudice, discrimination, anti-democratic visions and activities.

G. What is your big concern?
My big concern is that by your withdrawal from Afghanistan, the resistance and war will gain other façade. The resistance to the Taliban is a must and unpreventable. But it will not be the same as the past. It will be much more bloody and tragic. Your role will be questioned then: what did you do when you came to Afghanistan and what did you accomplish when you left it with this bloody quagmire? … This will have the most dreadful and unacceptable consequence. All the insurgencies are not necessary to be fanatical and Taliban-type. It may be otherwise, however, your effort and sacrifice will prove counterproductive. This is my big concern.

G. What would you say if you had a short advice to the president?
Every one had an advice:
Najia said: respect women rights and empower them.
Khalid said: strengthen the national army and national police and get rid of the big fishes around your table.
I said: Time has changed, you have to change! With your change, everything will get changed and fixed!

How to have a responsible dedicated generation? ...

Dear Rob,
I am sorry. I think I have completely forgotten to reply this post of yours. It seems that we both shifted to other groups and forgot our own!! However:
1) You are about the Pashtun fear of losing power. This is one of the characteristic of all totalitarian powers, especially those with ethnocentric bases. The Pashtun rulers have not only done nothing for the other ethnic communities, they have also been catastrophic for their own Pashtun groupings too. Two and a half centuries of militaristic war, looting, revenge, and monopoly over the political power has put a negative impact on their vision and patterns of behaviors.
2) The Western world has not much effort to understand the complexity of the Afghan issue. Perhaps it has not been so important for them. However, since their full engagement after the fall of the Taliban, they would need more attention on the realities of the ground.
3) King Zahir ruled the country for more than 40 years. His ruling was at a time when there were big influential rulers around: In Iran, Jordon, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Indonesia, Malysia, etc. While his counterparts were leading their respective countries towards a big civilized change, he was busy with hunting birds in the mountains, watching the fighting of the dogs, cocks, and enjoying his king-size life. He did not play a positive role in the time of resistance against the Soviets. He did only one good thing: he himself did not kill any of his opponents. Before him, his uncles were the real people behind the realm of power and they did horrifying things to the people. From the time that he got his control, the chain of killing stopped for a while. This is why most people compare his ruling with the successors and prefer that.
4) You are right that some of the foreigners have picked allies instead of solutions. But I think most of the blame goes to Afghans themselves. There is a lack of sane and positive role from the Afghan side. They are showing to be terribly irresponsible.
5) My concern is more on having a generation of responsible dedicated people. That can fill the vacuums. I have a fear that tomorrow when you decrease your attention in Afghanistan and return back home, the country would fall back at the tragically statues that held in the past. I think I had said this point before too: when you see the huge building with millions of dollars cost, but in front of that the road is drastically bumpy and there is no inclination to asphalt that, you would discover the sense of irresponsibility and tastelessness of the people. This needs to be changed. But how? … Let’s wait!
Perhaps we can debate on the solutions in our coming debates.
Aziz

Thhreat to Pashtun donminance....

Dear Aziz,
It would appear then that the biggest issue now facing the Pashtun in Afghanistan is the threat to their previous dominance. It would mean that they would loose control of the country, which you have so rightly pointed out they have not done a very good job of managing. I find it somewhat interesting that the Western world still does not comprehend the consequences of their actions while trying to unify the country.
As a side, how did the non-Pasthun respond to the late king Zahir Shah? I have heard many conflicting stories. Although I know he had little real power in the country, he supposedly tried to appeal to the greater population.
I agree that all participants need to change, however, I am not sure, with the amount of outside players currently in Afghanistan, that will happen. It appears that some of the international community has picked allies instead of solutions. The prime example is the Germans, who will only operate in the north. This would suggest they find the Tajik to be a group whose interest they would advocate, thus giving the Tajiks the sense they can demand more than they should. Unfortunately I fear the Hazara would be the minority group.
Do you sense that there are groups who wish to establish such alliances?
Thanks,
Rob

Sectarism is enhancing the isolation of the groups...

Dear Rob,
1) Yes, one of the reasons for Pashtuns rigidity seems to be their Pakhtunwali. They have a huge respect to their Pakhtunwali customs and code of rules. But it would not be fair to call that as an exclusive characteristics of the Pashutn community. In my previous emails I pointed that nearly all Afghan ethnic communities have been/are somehow living with tribal sensitivities. The others, especially the Hazaras, have been more flexible in terms of their changing, because of many reasons. You can count on the historical prejudice and discrimination against Hazaras as one of the reasons for their flexibility to adapt changes. Pashtuns are now afraid of losing the power which may result in their further backward status.
I want to insist that in our world no one can live and sustain as an island. Sectarism in all its forms, be religious or ethnical, is enhancing the isolation of the groups. I don’t feel if one can underestimate the negative role of Pashtun intellectual and political groups in fueling the sectarian sensitivities of the Pashtun community. They usually talk in a negative deviating manner about the past and about the realities. For example they are insisting on being independent and anti-foreigners in a negative way. They rarely explain the inter-connected relations between the world communities. They always refer to the history in a way that preaches hatred and hostilities against the foreigners. It may good in some places, but it caused lots of misunderstanding and misbehaviors in lots of other cases.
One thing is clear: no one is right in an exclusive way. You can find the truth with speaking and discussing the realities from different perspectives. This is a good practice. One has to criticize the past in a scientific manner. You cannot change the past, but you can turn it into enlightening lessons. The past rulers have gone, good or bad. The question is how to live in our time and how to deal with all the exigencies of our own time.
Pashtuns do need to change their views and behaviors, the same as Hazaras and others. Perhaps all of us have big responsibilities in this regard.
Aziz Royesh

There exists extremists in both groups....

Dear Aziz,

Thank you for the very good insight. It goes to show that the problems that exist in Afghanistan cannot be distilled down to something simple as is the West continually tries to do. We Westerners generally like things simple so we can better understand them. It would be better for us to understand the people and context of the situation, while complicated, it would at least help us to help you better.

As to the Pasthun, it would appear that Paktoonwali actually holds them back from furthering their progress in a modern world. Is that a fair statement?

Afghanistan has been a key between the East and West for centuries. The Silk Road met with the European trade routes in Afghanistan. The people have been conquered as you not and subject to tremendous outside pressures for generations. As the Pasthun have generally been the power, their "selling out" of the country because of their perceived lack of resources and value has not allowed the full integration of all the Afghan peoples from what I have been able to read.

The West's lack of understanding is the result that we have never looked at Afghan history. Until this conflict I would suggest that most Americans did not even know the country existed. It has also astounded me that the works by Louis and Nancy Dupree, Sir Olaf Caroe, Hassan Kakar, Charles Allen, and James Spainare unknown to the vast majority. We know of the Soviet intervention but not many people understand what surrounded it, the political climate in Kabul or what happened after the Soviets withdrew. I am always amazed to find people who don't know what have during the 30 years of conflict that has gone on in Afghanistan or the impact of that conflict on at least two generations of Afghans.

I appreciate your insight about the Sunni and Shiite. I concur with the fact that there exists extremists in both groups, just as there exists extremists in almost ever grouping of people in the world. We see the same in religious circles here too, as those who standfast to views and dogma without fully understanding the position. I am not sure that we can overcome that and as a result we will continue to find conflict when intolerance is practiced. This should mean that tolerance is necessarily extended to all thinking, it is striking the balance that we find as difficult as you in Afghanistan.

Thank you again,

Rob

Individualism can develop only among progressive communities...

Dear Rob,
1) It seems normal in the backward communities that people would try to hide/change their original identity. Individualism can develop only among progressive communities. Individual rights and dignity is the evidence of self awareness. In tribal communities people judge themselves in the eyes of the others not with their own criteria. Most of the Hazaras would change their identity, even their names, merely to hide their Hazara lineage. Hazara was a term of crime and insult throughout the century.
This was the same for the Pashtun. Most of literate educated Pashtuns would call themselves as Farsi-speaking or urban to escape their Pashtun lineage. Look at the colloquial titles of the Afghan ethnic communities: Hazara-e-Khar (the donkey Hazara), Hazara-e-Moshkhor (the mouse-eater Hazara), Uzbek Kala Kham (raw-minded Uzbek), Awghan-e-Ghool (the ogre/hobgoblin/Ghoul Pashtun). Or the language of Pashtu was named as the language of fart. This unfortunate phenomenon was mostly because of linguistic insults by urban Farsi-speaking population.
Hence, it was natural for most of the Pashtuns as well to hide their ethnical identity and take another guise on themselves. Ismaiel khan and Atta Noor are only the least examples.
For the Hazaras, it is only the recent years that they have taken pride on themselves. One of the famous quotes of Abdul Ali Mazari, the Hazara leader, was that he wished Hazara not to be a crime! Hazaras would call themselves as Tajiks, Pashtuns, Sayeds, Bayats and stuff like that.
2) You are right that the history of Pashtuns are mostly that of a militaristic one. That also a tribal militarism. The culture of revenge, hatred, looting, levying, taking pride of fighting, … these are the characteristics of tribal militarism. Pashtuns have been the defenders of the country, but all the rulers who have sold the country have also been Pashtun. You know that monopoly over political power in the backward countries cannot continue without depending on the foreigners. Only democratic regimes can call themselves independent. Non-democratic regimes either kill their people or surrender to the foreigners. Calling for being independent or defenders in the face of war and hatred can mostly be as a means of blackmailing. The situation in the South is overtly a blackmailing attempt. They are trying to blackmail both national and international fellows. This can be another characteristic of the tribal militarism: pay toll or I would kill you!
3) The Pashtuns of the north have double problems: 1) they have to follow all the polities of their southern brethren. 2) as they have been settled in the north by force and military might, they always feel themselves vulnerable in front of their northern neighbors who would at any time revenge and push them back to the south. The hostility of General Dostom and some prominent Tajik figures against Pashtuns are the indications of that fear. Ahmad Shah Masould did a lot of ethnic-pressuring attempt against northern Pashtuns. The literacy rate among northern is as low as among the southern. Now, Taliban have great influence among them and they have shown no resentment towards Talibanism at all.
4) We have lots of great Sunni scholars who have tried to interpret Islam and the holy text with a liberal perspective. But they have rarely succeeded to cross their message and ideas deep into the grassroots level of the communities. You can name Iqbal Lahori, Nasr Hamid Abuzaid from Agypt, Mohammad Arkon, and the likes. They are some exceptionally great Sunni scholars. But they have not managed to cross their views to the community. While, in the Shiite community the debate and discourses on very critical Islamic issues have been normal throughout the history. You have thousands of books among the Shiites who are discussing very serious religious issues. These books are easily found in all the Shiite families. Of course, there are lots of fanatical rigid-minded clerics among the Shiite as well. You cannot ignore the being of Khamenei or his folk in Iran. Just two weeks ago an Iranian Ayatullah said in the Friday prayers that the earth quake is because of the bad Hijabs of the women and the increase of adultery!! This is true. But you have tens of great clergies who denounce such superstitious claims and preach scientific findings. This is the reason that Shiites are comparatively progressive in their views and behaviors. Nonetheless, it should not lead us into stereotypical judgments at all.
Regards
Aziz Royesh

Pashtuns have been militants for centuries...

Dear Aziz,

Your English is very good. I am glad that you are participating, although I must say you are providing much more depth to the conversation than I am. I am very appreciative of your answers though.

Before I begin, you are right, Bamyan is a very beautiful place. I used the Buddha statues because, unfortunately, that is what most of the Western World associates with the province. People do not know about the blue lakes, the very good climate, the friendly people, or the overall beauty of the Province. I shall add some more pictures to my album for people to see.

Also, I was not aware that Dr. Spanta was a Tahiri. I had heard something about Atta Mohammad Noor, and the problems between him and General Dostum.

It is interesting that there exists a grouping within the Pashtun that prefer to distance themselves from the crowd so to speak. If we can find why the Pashtun wishes to remain stuck in time we may be able to overcome their zealous fighting mentality. I am not sure it would be successful though. History shows that the Pashtun has been militant for a few centuries and that they have often seen themselves as the defender of the country. This still does not explain why they choose to remain backward.

From your descriptions, the Hazara, Tajik, Uzbek and Tahiri all place an emphasis on bettering their social condition, often through education and cultural advancement. This is the sign of a strong nation, provides for national pride and provides the ability to live and cooperate.

For those pockets of Pashtu that live in the North, do the they share the same desires as their neighbors or do they hold to the same stubbornness of the people who live in the South?

I have noticed the Shiite seem to be more focused on developing their abilities than the Sunni. The Sunni appear to want Allah to provide everything and they do little in return. If this mindset is true, can it be the reason that the Pashtun has not advanced as the rest of the country?

Look forward to your insight,

Regards,
Rob

The conceptual gap which has detached the South from the world...

Dear Rob,
Yes, the Tajiks and Uzbeks do share the same effort. Meanwhile, there are some differences too:
1) The Tajiks, as you have mentioned, mostly look at their military might to gain privileges. There are also good intentions on education in the Tajik community. One should remember that the Tajiks enjoyed a better socio-political status in the past compared to the Hazaras and Uzbeks. They mostly formed the beurocratic structure of the political system and the regime did not show much resentment towards them. Now their civic and cultural effort is not as serious as the Hazaras who find no better means other than effort and education.
2) The Uzbeks have the main problem of language. They are too backward in terms of their linguistic possibilities. They don’t have negative reaction to any modern norms of life. Their link with Turkey has also helped them absorb most of the urban system of values. Their other problem is the exclusive ruling of General Dostum, who has nothing other than his military tongue. The level of literacy is also too low in the Uzbek community.
3) In Hirat, Iranians have great influence, mostly due to their close border and shared language. Most of the Hirati people do travel to Iran and have lots of common interests with their Iranian neighbors. Hirat is a mixed-ethnic province. Some of the districts are Pashtuns and some Persian-speaking people. In the city, there are Hazaras. but there are a huge number of non-Hazara Shiites who are mainly from the Iranian origins. There is an ethnic community which is called Tahirian. They speak Farsi, but do not regard themselves as Tajiks. Recently, the number of Hazaras has increased because most of the repatriates from Iran have preferred to settle in Hirat. Some other Hazaras who have fled the central highlands have also gone to Hirat.
4) Iranian’s government has not a good feeling towards Hazaras, especially after the time of Abdul Ali Mazari, the Hazara leader who refused to follow the pressures of Iran to back Masoud in the time of the civil strife (1992-1994). Iran feels that the Hazaras are not following much of their religious authority. The education which Iranian regime is promoting is an ideological one. The Hazaras are now mostly following secular education and even in the central highlands the numbers of Madrasas are decreasing and less people send their kids to get religious lessons.
However, Iran is trying a lot to support religious schools and preach sectarian issues. They try to maintain their influence and one cannot claim that their effort is totally futile and zero.
5) The people in the south seem happy with their way of life. But all have faced with a complicated puzzle with them. Seemingly there is a huge conceptual gap dividing them with the whole world. They cannot understand what is going around and the others cannot make them understand what is for their good and what is not. You are spending your tax on building the schools, the other day they burn the school and ask you to rebuild it along with providing more assistance to guard it! This seems mostly as a joke, but no one really knows what to do. They have taken all as their hostage! They are blackmailing, they are intimidating, they are shouting, they are killing, … still every one is owing to them!
Is it too ironical?
best

Is there any way to overcome the situtation in the South?...

Dear Aziz,
Thank you for the picture and comments. It is commendable that there are progressive groups within Afghanistan who wish to move forward despite the hardships that are placed in the way of that effort.
I am interested to know if the Tajiks and Uzbeks share any of the same effort to make their life better as does the Hazara. I know that often the Tajiks use their base of power (primarily the military) to advance their cause, but do they share the same interest in further education as a means of making their lives stronger?
As a side note, I have heard many different stories about the situation of Herat and the support provided by Iran. My question is, what is the primary ethnic makeup of Herat City and Province? The Iranians have a great interest in education, do Hazaras participate in that effort?
What do you feel is the reason that the south has not progressed in their development? Is there a way to overcome their resistance or are they happy with their status in life?
Thank you again.
By the way, was the picture taken at Dubai Airport?
Rob

education is the main key to better future...

Dear Rob,
Thanks for the kind note. I am much more delighted to know that you are having an online course. It is so inspiring.
Your statement about the Hazaras' interest to education and a better standard of life is right. They feel that education is the main key to their better future. They don't have access in high position of authority. They lack enough economic facilities to get into successful competition in the market. They have suffered a lot from their military resistance. Now the only means which seems rational and affordable for them is education. I don't know if it would be referred to their cultural sense too. Hazaras are mostly noted with tow peculiarities: one, they can easily get the points and messages. Two, they can easily get together and become organized. Whenever there has been a good sensible message, they have absorbed that. I can experience this in my school and civic activities too. For six years after the fall of the fall of the Taliban, we had a co-education system in the school and boys and girls attended mixed classes with no any negative reaction from the families. The families used to send their daughters even at the ages of 18 and 20 to start just from grade one in a class where half of the classmates were boys. When the ministry insisted to separate classes according to genders, we maintained some of our mixed programs and activities and we can see the good result of their interactions in their mentality and psychology.
Now it is interesting to know that in the south, you pay your tax to build a school for the people who burn it just the other day. Now, they even ask for more money to not only rebuild the burnt school but also to guard it! While in the Hazara regions, there has been the least assistance, however, the people do not have a single negative reaction. You can easily make a foot tour throughout Hazara region with no any single fear of being intimidated, let alone to be harmed. I have tens of western fellows, men and women, who visit the school in Kabul with no any bodyguard or pre-arranged security. Last year, an American lady for the American University of Afghanistan used to come to school regularly every Thursday to have a reading circle with the students. She never said any word to having been scared of anything.

Hazaras focused on education....

Rob Dodson said:
Dear Aziz,
I apologize for the delay in responding. I just started an online College Course and needed to get some immediate class work finished.
What I find interesting is the fact the Hazara are able to adapt while the remainder still seem to me to be caught in time. Is there an explanation for this or have I misjudged something?
Responding to your post, I knew that there were a large number of Hazara that supported the Communists but did not understand that it was most of the Hazara intelligentsia. But after reflection, it makes some sense to me, it was the best way to equalize their standing in the country.
Something I would be curious about, from my exposure to working with Hazara, they seem to be more focused and intent on the furthering of their education, standard of living, and so forth; more so than any other group I have worked with. Is this a fair statement?
Look forward to your response,
Rob

How do Hazaras find it easier to get rid of Tribalism?

Dear Rob,
Thank you for another good lesson about how the Americans found their new community out of many individuals who were in pursuit of individual asylum in a newly explored territory. Our impression of the characteristic of the tribal community is out of our common sense, while yours is out of scientific knowledge. We talk about our daily interaction and suffering, while you are talking about intellectual research. This is why that sometimes, we fail to really understand ourselves, and sometimes, you fail to comply your intellectual finding with the reality of the ground in Afghanistan. But, perhaps, we can remedy our conceptual gap with our joint discourse and collaboration.
As far as the Hazaras are concerned, I think their support for the new change has many reasons:
1) They support democracy because of the easy reason of devolution of power, suffrage, political participation, civil and human rights, coming out of being humiliated and discriminated against, etc.
2) They feel there is a unique possibility for them to raise their voice and get their message heard around the world.
3) Because of their historical suffering, nearly most of the Hazara literate people have assumed a leftist approach of the ideologies, both Communism and Islam. As you know, most of the first generation of the Hazara intellectuals favored Communism, either Soviet’s or Maoist types. Those who remained Muslim and opposed Communism because of its Materialistic Philosophy favored the leftist interpretation of Islam such as the thoughts of Dr. Ali Shariati or Khomeini. I wonder if you have studied about Dr. Shariati’s thoughts and legacies in the Shiite Muslim community. He was educated in the West and brought the huge impact on the visions of the Shiite about Islam. He had a socialist revolutionary approach of Islam and many generations both inside and outside of Iran absorbed his thoughts either directly or indirectly. In the coming years, the person who greatly influenced the literate community of the Hazaras is Dr. Abdul Karim Sorosh, who is one the great thinkers of the world and he propounded many radical interpretations about the religious issues. He is favoring democracy and is regarded as the main theoretical father of the Iranian current reformist movement. I can say that he is one of the beacons among the literate intellectual Hazaras, regardless of having studies in religious or secular schools.
4) One of the great impacts on the visions of the Hazaras was brought about by the leader of the Hazara community during the civil war: Abdul Ali Mazari. He was a clergy, but had a very deep ethnical-political vision for the struggles of the Hazaras. He was an exceptional charismatic leader. He became the first unique Hazara leader after their defeat to Emir Abdurrahman, around a century back. He changed all religious slogans of the Hazaras into political ones. He stood against Iranian pressure that supported Masoud government. He changed the religious leaders of the Hazaras. He brought all Hazaras, regardless of their ideological perspectives together and made the first political shelter for their common ethnical claims.
5) The role of the Hazara intellectuals has also been crucial in the easy transformation of the community. They have debated on different experiences of the people and published their views widely. They have contributed a major role in establishing and supporting schools and primary education, both for boys and girls. They have published books and journals through which the public opinion has been shaped.
6) Culturally, Hazaras do not have much restrictive view on the women. The women used to be the rulers of the community before they suffered their big defeat against Emir Abdurrahman in late 1880s. There have been tens of female leaders and landlords who were the focal point of their respective communities. Ladies used to ride horse and participate in public games. Hazara women do not have any distance with their male members of the family in farming, training livestock, etc. Falling in love had been common between Hazara youth with no major reaction from the families.
7) Wide migration of the Hazaras during Soviet’s occupation is another major reason to change their lifestyle. They went to Pakistan, mostly to Quetta, where mostly the secular Hazars lived. Hazaras of Pakistan had fled the massacres of Emir Abdurrahman and had sought asylum in British India of the time. Hazaras went to Iran where they found chance to send their kids to school and partially incorporate into Iranian civilized community. Many more Hazaras went to the Western countries and learned about modern norms of life…

Anyway, now the Hazaras have much lesser problem to getting out of their tribal system… Perhaps, we can follow the discussion…
Aziz Royesh

Why canHazaras get rid of Tribalism easier?

Dear Aziz,

You are quite right about how we, Americans, view a tribal community. We have no history of being one, having begun as a group of like minded refugees, our community was based on something quite different. Additionally, most of the groups were composed of individuals that may not have been related to one another. So we looked at the "common good" whatever that meant. Thus your conclusion of tribal being an outside matter is quite correct. Thank you for that, it is an important distinction that needs to be made. It also highlights a problem that we Westerns cannot understand, that we can only debate on tribalism. We always feel we can understand a concept. While we might understand it, we cannot experience it in the same manner and as such we will always be wide of the mark in our complete understanding.
As to the Hazaras, why do you think it is easier for them to get rid of the system? Does it have to do with the way they have been treated over the generations? Or is it something else?

Thanks,
Rob
continued in ...

Tribalism is closely related to our existence and being...

Dear Rob,
Talking about the essence of tribal community is an interesting issue. Perhaps the impression about that is not the same between an Afghan and an American. You are talking about tribalism as an outsider matter, but we are talking about that as something closely related to our existence and being. You can only debate on tribalism, but we are breathing that and we have to balance all parts of our life with that.
The image of tribalism is the main characteristic of the Afghan community. All it suffers and does, is deeply related to its tribal vision, traditions, custom, and overall culture. Religion is also a tribal one, here. Culture is the core of existence of communities. People look at everything through their cultural eyes. They interpret and contemplate everything mixed with their cultural feelings. The degree of being more or less tribal is the only difference between different ethnic communities here.
The problem of the Pashtun community seems a bit more. They have ruled a tribal system of political power for more than two and a half centuries. Now they have to preserve that power too, based on tribal ethnocentric assumptions. You can look at the Hazaras, as a comparative example: they have suffered from brutalities of the despotic anti-democratic governments. Now getting rid of this system is an opportunity for the Hazaras. Hence, they easily find it convenient to support democratic process, secular types of systems, civil society, human rights and other civil norms of life. This is for their own benefit. With such a choice, they not only lose nothing, but can gain a lot. You can find it as a catalyzer variable in the tribal institutions of the Hazara community.
However, it doesn’t mean that the Hazaras are not enjoying tribalism. They have only the chance of stepping ahead of it; while this is a bit more problematic for the Pashtuns.
The discourse on religious issues is also viewed from this perspective. Pashtuns feel that only rigid interpretations of Islam can help them preserve their existing/historical privileges, while the Hazaras find it more affordable to cross fanatical religious views to reach a better standard of life. You can find a very interesting division inside the Shiite community the majority of which is the Hazaras. The non-Hazara clergies are the forerunners to preserve old traditional religious rites and rituals, while most of the Hazara clergies prefer to support changes and reforms in their religious viewpoints and behaviors. The reason is that the power and influence of the non-Hazara clergies can continue only through traditional religious views, while the Hazara clergies think that traditional religious interpretation would push them back to the past.
Looking forward to getting your views before stepping further…
Aziz Royesh
continued in...

Can "Tribal" be used adnunct to an ethnic grouping...?

Thank you for the detailed response. I would like to reply to all, but I think it might be better to break it down into a dialogue corresponding to each of your numbered points. I also wish to thank you for the enlightenment that you are providing. My exposure to input in Afghanistan was not as comprehensive as I would have liked and you are providing me with additional information for which I am very appreciative.

1. "The question of picking and choosing between Islam and Pashtunwali is not an easy one. This is the question of entity and identity." I must confess that I had not approached this topic from the view of entity and identity. When I do it makes it much easier to understand. In the States there is a concerted effort to divorce religion from the government, often confusing the question of entity and identity. We mix the two and do not understand that distinction. This causes great consternation as too much time is spent trying to separate the two. Do you think that the term "tribal" can be used adjunct to an ethnic grouping or do we maintain tribal instincts and incorporate them into other groupings? The reason I ask, your point about how the tribal influence impacts groups extends to groups here that are based on a political belief system, specifically the subgroups we have, i.e. conservatives, liberals, extreme right wing, etc. What makes me ask is that I see close correlation in your statement "They explicitly find themselves in the quagmire of sin and guilt. They feel this is the end of the world! They do not know what will happen with their defiance, but they do not doubt of being on the right way"(although they are not referring to religion) and the statements and actions of such people here.

the controvery between Islamwali and Pashtunwali...

Dearest Rob,
I am sorry for being late in replying your kind and educative words. Actually I am using a GPRS connection which is too slow and every two three days I face an interruption or failure in the system. Anyway, this is my notes on your last words. Sorry if it is a bit too long!

Dear Rob,
1) The question of picking and choosing between Islam and Pashtunwali is not an easy one. This is the question of entity and identity. Islam is a religion. They refer that to the ordinance of Allah. They feel proud to being a Muslim, one who is chosen by Allah and bestowed by Allah. You know having a definition and interpretation about the ordinance and will of Allah is always controversial. Everyone can claim something and regard that as concrete. This is the characteristic of religious beliefs. All religions inculcate righteousness to their followers. This can easily result to dogmatism. Religious fanaticism is a well-known phenomenon. Hatred, inflexibility, arrogance, etc are common among all religious creeds.

In this regard, tribal culture is the same as the religion. Tribal dogmatism is also dividing the world into right and wrong, black and white. When these two dogmatism merge and get incorporated, it becomes difficult to clearly distinct the border of religion and culture.

Now the Pashtun community is the battlefield between harsh conflicting systems of values. They do not seem to submit to the modern system of values. Besides, they do not seem to have the chance and capability to preserve their tribal entity in the face of modern challenges. Burning schools or reaction to the women participation is an embossed pattern. This is not a natural reaction. You could not expect such a reaction 30 years ago, at the end of Monarchy regime. But now, it is shown widely. It is an indication of the harsh choice between their religious-tribal entity/identity. They explicitly find themselves in the quagmire of sin and guilt. They feel this is the end of the world! They do not know what will happen with their defiance, but they do not doubt of being on the right way: They fight for Allah, they die for Allah and they are sure that they will be awarded by Allah in hereafter.

2) There is an explicit lack of religious discourse among the Pashtun community. You cannot find even one single book which would be containing a serious debate on Islam and its relation with the exigencies of the modern world. They have never debated on the importance of beard-controlling campaign or robbing women from their ordinary rights in connection with their Islamic view. This is a major problem. Now, you as the people from the modern world, find it hard to open a discourse with them. You cannot contemplate their words and they cannot yours. There is a completely two different world. This can be noted as the conceptual gap. Money, war, threats, tolls, patronizing, caressing, intimidating, … nothing can really work there. It is not irony that they claim the rule of Sharia but never explain that to any one. They order you to merely obey and nothing else!

3) Islam doesn’t serve as the overarching political mentor. But as a religion, Islam is also full of paradoxical orders and ideas. In Islam you have the overwhelming stress on liberty, even liberty in believing in God; you also have the compulsory points which dictate everything according to the ordinance of God. I have had a wide research on Islam and other religious doctrines for more than 20 years. Still I am following my studies in this subject. It has always been interesting, educative and inspiring for me. I am teaching civic educations in my school and have authored series of textbooks on Humanism, Human Rights, Democracy, interpretation of Quran, ethics, etc. The question is the irrational dogmas which have overcome Islam. These dogmas can only get cleared by rational logical discourses. When you do not let even one word to be said, how can you define and settle the dogmas?

4) Zakat or other decrees of Islam related to the social affairs are not the core of Islam. This is clearly stated and defined by Quran itself. You have the mother verses, which are regarded as the beacons and core of guidance to Allah. They are called as “Mohkamat” (the most firm and solid ones). Among these are the faith to Allah, the order to apply justice, the respect to the Man as the Caliph of Gad, the equality of all before Allah and divine ordinance, the obedience only to Allah, the freedom in faith, the respect to all religions as the wills of Allah, the tolerance and forgiveness for the sake of Allah, etc….
You have the other verses which are called as “Motashabihat” and they are the orders which are looking at the realities and exigencies of time. Zakat is not the firm order, but it is an order which was regarded to help remedy the class division in the community. But remember, this is not the one and only order in this regard. You have many more: there are firm verses which ask to “Infaq”. Infaq means that you should bestow your wealth and belongings to the needy people if you do not need them right now. Even there are verses which states that if you save something which you do not need, while there are others who are in need of them, you will be punished by the fury of Allah.

The other word is Jihad. Jihad doesn’t mean fighting. Jihad means endeavor and effort on the way of Allah. Even it is said that learning and getting education is the best Jihad. The prophet Mohammad has a well-known quote saying that: “expressing one right word in the face of a tyrant monarch is the highest Jihad”. There is another saying of the prophet which says: “Hekmat (knowledge/deep knowledge) is the lost treasury of the faithful. He seeks and gets that even though if it is at the hands of “Kafir” (infidel).” This is a clear word which encourages the faithful to seek knowledge. If you are going to get knowledge, this is the prime need. So you have to be friend of “infidel” to get your desired knowledge. You cannot get knowledge by force or suicidal attacks….

These are the examples which show different controversial points in Islam and of course you cannot solve them without having a logical open-minded discourse.
Now, all Muslims are levying tax. They do not think if they are committing any crime. It is an example that modern findings are not something that the Muslim community can easily ignore.
In Islam you are not obliged to conduct a sensitive debate about the separation of Church and State. They can be addressed through Islamic discourses too… Perhaps this would be another critical issue that can be talked about in detail….

5) Yes, our school is primarily Hazaras. Our school is located in PD13, Kabul. It is in the western part of the city where more than two millions Hazaras are settled in two districts (6 and 13). The statistic is claimed by the municipality of Kabul and it seems to be nearly right. Our school is right at the far-ending side of the district 13 which is called “Dashti Barchi”. The Hazaras have suffered a lot throughout the tyrannical history of Afghanistan. So they are very happy to have the chance which is given to them after the fall of the Taliban. They can go to school, participate in political process, express themselves in the environment of freedom of press and freedom of expression, etc.

Last year a number of fanatical clergies stormed our school blaming it as the “center of Christianity and secularism”. It was a harsh moment. They were calling for the burning of the school and execution of the teachers. But the school and the community passed this harsh attack quite easily and successfully. They had attacked our school because some of our students and female teachers had protested against a controversial law which was designed by a fanatical clergy. This law was termed as the “rape law” in the Western press. It was regarded as insulting and defaming the women. The president bypassed Parliament and stipulated the law to attract the support of the fanatical clergies for his elections. However, the school and its supporting community stood firm and continued their work. Finally the law was revised by the Ministry of Justice and they brought more than 70 major amendments, one chapter and 17 articles were completely removed.

It was a good example of how the Hazara community has come a long way ahead in terms of their religious-cultural viewpoints. You can follow the story of that incident in my personal weblog which is linked to different international press:

http://azizroyesh.blogspot.com/

regards
Aziz Royesh

Does Islam serves as the overarching political mentor?

Dear Aziz,

I agree with you completely, I was looking to see how an Afghan saw these guys operations. I find it very interesting that they seem to pick and choose between Islam and Pashtunwali. Is it that they are looking for an answer to allow them to do what they want (i.e. the conflict between tribes and the prohibition of fighting a Muslim)?

I find your insight very helpful. While I am very much interested in Afghanistan, I fear I have come to the table to late to understand everything. This is why I try to maintain dialogue with the folks I have come to work with who are Afghan.

As to the interaction of Islam and the community. Does this occur because Islam serves as the overarching political mentor? It is very commendable that Islam retains its obligation toward the poor through the Zakat (at least in some areas). A major issue in our country has been the separation of church and state. With this separation the government generally assumes responsibilities that were previously found in religious orders, i.e. the schools, hospitals, orphanages, etc.

If I remember correctly, I believe you said your school was primarily Hazara. How do they view the conflict that is occurring. I have a number of Hazara friends, I have always found them to be very inquisitive, much more so than the other ethnic groups.

I will read you post in more detail and put together a reply. I must say that I cannot overstate my appreciation for your thoughts.

Cheers,
Rob

None of them can be regarded as the most dangerous!

Dear Rob Dodson,

Actually none of these figures can be regarded as the most dangerous one. They are dangerous because they enjoy all kinds of support from their social, cultural and religious stance in the Afghan community. They are not doing anything by their individual power. They are doing that because they have followers who share their view and belief, and willingly apply their command. This is a question of complex mentality among the Afghan population.

One would say that the lack of democratic institutions can provide room for the people like Mullah Omar, Haqani or Hekmatyar. They are mostly enjoying political agendas which are based on ethnocentric assumption. The religion is mostly used as a cover to support this agenda. You have well pictured the feud between Haqani and Zadran. What is that to do with religion? You can find the roots of rivalry between Mullah Omar and Karzai too in their tribal attachments. You are aware of the relation between different Pashtun tribes. In their general standpoint, they have the same feud and animosity towards the other ethnic communities which is the characteristic of all tribal communities. They are marginalized in their limited worldview. They confine the world to their own findings. They find it difficult to accept pluralistic viewpoints. This is why that they do change to Mullah Omar, Haqani or Hekmatyar. This is why that they easily spray acids to the faces of girls, behead the teachers or commit suicidal attacks.

Their fanatical view of Islam is also an interesting story. You know the in-breeding relations between tribal culture and religion. Both has linkage points to come together and easily merge to each other. In this incorporation, culture always plays a central role and remains as the core of the composition. Religion initially plays a role of the cover but gradually they seem as the same. We have a saying in Farsi that: culture is the most astringent phenomena in the human relations. This is true. Culture can sit back, but never dies. Culture is capable of being transformed into different shapes. Islam and Pashtunwali have amazingly incorporated with each other. Islam has lots of points which were the reflections of the Arabian culture. They came and easily found their sisterhood with the ones in the Pashtun community. Through centuries, now it is difficult for you to really distinct what is Islamwali and what is Pashtunwali. This story can be followed in all the Islamic communities. This is the characteristic of the religion: they do not push the culture back. They only find their way of incorporation and interactions with the culture. This is why that you don't have one type of Islamic interpretation. In Pakistan, you can easily find the difference of Panjabi Islam and Patanic Islam. You can find different view on the women issue all claiming to be Islamic. Likewise, inside Afghanistan, all other ethnic communities are Muslims. You have Hazaras, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmans, Baluchs, and others who make the overwhelming majority of the population. Even inside Pashtun intellectuals who have culturally shifted, you find people who enjoy quite different view about Islam, about women, about human rights, about having relation with the rest of the human community.

Mullah Omar and the likes are reflecting that type of Pashtun culture which is the most tribal and traditional one. Yes, they are currently the majority of the Pashtun community, but it does not mean that they are the whole.

In the meantime, there is another point which has helped Mullah Omar and his likes to be the main figures of the insurgent movement in the Pashtun community: the notion of having Totalitarian regime based on ethnocentric assumption. This has helped the insurgent groups to continue their influence and growth. Even at the time of the Taliban ruling, you could see that nearly all Pashtun figures stood behind Mullah Omar and supported his brutal anti-democratic regime. If there was some to criticize Taliban, it was because of their shortcomings in the face of the international relations, not because of the non-democratic entity of their regime.

Anyway, it would be difficult to mention any of these three guys as the most or least dangerous. They have their own model of living and talking politics. Any of them can be changed to each other as well as they can reproduce lots of other people like themselves.

Aziz

Information on the Oil theory behind the Taliban!

Omar,

Interesting statement......Soviet estimates from the late 1970s placed Afghanistan's proven and probable oil and condensate reserves at 95 million barrels. Not much in the way of oil. So what is the meaning of "Oil controversy"?

As to the pipeline, in December 1997, three Taliban ministers went to Texas to hear what Unocal had to offer if they agreed to let a gas pipeline be built from Turkmenistan through Afghan territory to Pakistan. "They are just going to Texas to talk. They are not supposed to sign any agreements on the gas pipeline,'' Mutta Wakil, a Taliban spokesman said from the Taliban headquarters in southern Kandahar. "If any agreements are reached they will be signed in Afghanistan.''

By early 1998 a Unocal led consortium had made a deal with the Taliban to construct an Afghanistan pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan. On the question of the Afghanistan route "the most obvious drawback of a proposed pipeline from Turkmenistan, through Afghanistan, to Pakistan and down to the Arabian Sea is that there is still a civil war going on in Afghanistan."

Nevertheless, all factions in the civil war signed agreements supporting the proposed pipeline, according to Bob Todor, executive vice president of Unocal.

The Unocal led Centgas consortium consisted of the following companies.

Unocal Corporation (US), 46.5 percent

Delta Oil Company Limited (Saudi Arabia), 15 percent

The Government of Turkmenistan, 7 percent

Indonesia Petroleum, LTD. (INPEX) (Japan), 6.5 percent

ITOCHU Oil Exploration Co., Ltd. (CIECO) (Japan), 6.5 percent

Hyundai Engineering & Construction Co., Ltd. (Korea), 5 percent

The Crescent Group (Pakistan), 3.5 percent

The 48-inch diameter pipeline was to extend 790 miles (1,271 kilometers) from the Afghanistan-Turkmenistan border, generally follow the Herat-to-Kandahar Road through Afghanistan, cross the Pakistan border in the vicinity of Quetta, and terminate in Multan, Pakistan, where it would tie into an existing pipeline system. Turkmenistan was to construct a pipeline that will link with the CentGas line at the border and stretch approximately 105 miles (169 kilometers) to the Dauletabad Field. A potential 400-mile (644-kilometer) extension from Multan to New Delhi also was under consideration. (source, Hazara.net)

Finally, as to war, Afghanistan has been in a state of war for the past thirty years. There are generations of Afghans who only know of conflict. Afghanistan has fallen victim, often to outsider, the British, the Mongol, even the Macedonians.

The Taliban were very reluctant to share power, and since their ranks were overwhelmingly Pashtun they ruled as overlords the 60% of Afghanistan which is home to other ethnic groups. At the national level, "all senior Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara bureaucrats" were replaced "with Pashtuns, whether qualified or not." Consequently, the ministries "by and large ceased to function." Along with being very strict, the Taliban were averse to debate on doctrine with other Muslims.

As they established their power the Taliban created a new form of Islamic radicalism that spread beyond the borders of Afghanistan, mostly to Pakistan. By 1998–1999 Taliban-style groups in the Pashtun belt, and to an extent in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, "were banning TV and videos ... and forcing people, particularly women to adapt to the Taliban dress code and way of life."

The Taliban ideology was not static. Before its capture of Kabul, members of the Taliban talked about stepping aside once a government of "good Muslims" took power and law and order were restored. The decision making process of the Taliban in Kandahar was modeled on the Pashtun tribal council (jirga), together with what was believed to be the early Islamic model.

However, as the Taliban's power grew, decisions were made by Mullah Omar without consulting the jirga and without Omar's visiting other parts of the country. He visited the capital, Kabul, only twice while in power. Taliban spokesman Mullah Wakil explained:

"Decisions are based on the advice of the Amir-ul Momineen. For us consultation is not necessary. We believe that this is in line with the Sharia. We abide by the Amir's view even if he alone takes this view. There will not be a head of state. Instead there will be an Amir al-Mu'minin. Mullah Omar will be the highest authority and the government will not be able to implement any decision to which he does not agree. General elections are incompatible with Sharia and therefore we reject them."

The Taliban government has been described as "a secret society run by Kandaharis ... mysterious, secretive, and dictatorial." They did not hold elections, as their spokesman explained:

The Sharia does not allow politics or political parties. That is why we give no salaries to officials or soldiers, just food, clothes, shoes and weapons. We want to live a life like the Prophet lived 1400 years ago and jihad is our right. We want to recreate the time of the Prophet and we are only carrying out what the Afghan people have wanted for the past 14 years.

The main characteristic of the Afghan community then is it resilience to survive. Having been in a state of conflict for centuries, both from without and within, their ability to survive is formidable.

all three groups are just as dangerous!

Dear Rob Dodson& Azizulah Royesh,

Sorry for the interruption…But I believe that all three groups are just as dangerous and if one may not seem as destructive in comparison to anothers', then one day they will undoubtedly fulfill this present gap. Although I do not comprise an eighth of the knowledge you both may have, I can’t help but to proclaim the potential that even the most passive-appearing of groups may have… “Mullah Omar's Taliban - the first and original group. Omar was adamant about not using suicide bombers and targeting civilians. I am afraid he lost that argument, first to Mullah Dadullah Lang, then to others. You are right of course on their strict view of the world, as well as the consequences of their Sharia Law courts. They still wish to keep things as of old, no schooling for girls, the Imam the principal person in the village, all as you so clearly stated. No kites, no music, all men must have bushy beards, no photos or drawings of people, and no sorcery. Worldwide, even social conservatives were horrified by punitive laws that made prisoners out of Afghan women.” The very fact that Mullah Omar was negating education for women and various other unjust –completely contradictory to Islamic law- regulation will introduce conflict to Afghanistan. The citizens will rebel and with rebellious actions correlates punishment… And the Taliban have been known for their severe tortures. However, I was wondering what you thought of the United States involvement in this issue? Specifically the American UNOCAL oil company’s support to the Taliban for the pipeline that would be built through Afghanistan. “Insider accounts published in the British, French and Indian media have revealed that US officials threatened war against Afghanistan during the summer of 2001. These reports include the prediction, made in July, that “if the military action went ahead, it would take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.” The Bush administration began its bombing strikes on the hapless, poverty-stricken country October 7, and ground attacks by US Special Forces began October 19.” America has been callous in its pursuit for “equality” and the end of the Taliban, but do you think America’s entrance into the war has truly made Afghanistan more peaceful or just contributed to the innocent death toll of children and women? Back to the main purpose of this thread… “The main characteristic of the Afghan community?” I believe what distinguishes Afghanistan from the rest of the world at the moment is the war occurring and the “Oil controversy”… Afghanistan, however in many eyes will remain the rich and geographically diverse landscape that fell victim to false interpretations of religion, dictatorship and greed…

-Omar Shawaf

Reference:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov2001/afgh-n20.shtml

which one is the most dangerous?

Dear Aziz,

A very interesting view, one that I had not contemplated but after reading must agree. These seem to be tied directly to the three view (based on leadership) perspective that is generally pervasive in the US government. Once that view is in hand, then one must apply the views listed above to further the analysis.

I agree with your assumption that group two is the problem set. I wonder why Hekmatyar would think that the people of Afghanistan would want him back after the destruction of Kabul. But he has been able to change his alliances to suit his situation as you so clearly point out.

Of the three leaders, which one do you see as the most dangerous?

Insurgent can be classified in four ranks....

Dear Rob Dodson,

Thank you for the good information.

Besides your classifications of the Taliban, one can see Taliban from another perspective too:

Taliban can be divided in to four groupings:

1) The ideological group who regard themselves as the guardians of Sharia and Divine law. They claim to have an apostleship to fight for the will of Allah. In their view, all who do not favor their belief are the pagans, anti-Muslims. They divide the whole world simply into faithful and Kafir. They do not let any room for the compromise and discourse on their beliefs. They see every thing either black or white. They are fighting against the current process in Afghanistan as part of their mission for a holy war (Jihad). They can get satisfied only when their divine mission is applied.

2) The totalitarian group who are looking at a monopolistic type of ruling based on ethnocentric assumptions. This group has only a mask of Taliban and Sharia but actually seek opportunity to bargain for more power and privileges. Their insurgency is because of their bad feeling towards the process which paves the way for the distribution of power and leaves no room for their arbitrary ruling. They can get satisfied when their demands for more power is answered.

3) The troublemakers who always profit from insecurity, anarchy and chaos. They are putting the mask of the Taliban to play highway-robbing and bandit. They are the opportunists who are profiting from the name of the Taliban and have made their mafia-type of gangsters. The drug traffickers and former Jihadi warlords are also in this group.

4) The people who are fed up with the corruption of the government and have been targeted by tribal feuds and retaliations. They are fighting because of their hatred against the officials and they seem to have no choice other than resorting to the gun for the sake of their own safety and security.

It seems that the major problem now is with the second group who can easily change face and turn from one side to other. They have double-sided game: Pashtunwali and Islamwali. Hekmatyar is mostly from the second group. He is an Islamist who is using Islam for his political agenda. He joined Shahnawaz Tanai to launch a coup against Dr. Najibullah, the last Communist statesman. He stood against General Dostum as a Communist and later made an alliance with him against Rabani and Masood. He left all his fronts for the Taliban out of his ethnic assumption and later joined Rabani and Masood to stand against Taliban. He is now against the international forces in Afghanistan but has always been ready to make a deal. Recently he sent his deputy and other fellows to conduct a negotiation with the government. Currently most of his former fellows are with the government. They have claimed high positions including Key cabinet posts and advisory team around President Karzai. The voice and tune of PK has dramatically changed after the influence of the Hekmatyar Hezbi Islami people has increased around him. They are the ones who do not believe in any thing other than arbitrary power.

Dear Rob,

I would be happy to have your comments on this perspective too. We might have time to follow the debate a bit closer and in detail.

Regards
Aziz Royesh

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Taliban are three distinct groupings...

Dear Aziz,

You are correct in their limited world view. A critical point with the Taliban is their lack of desire to be a global entity. Their focus is on Afghanistan. I look at the Taliban as three distinct groupings, each with a different approach to the insurgency, goals if you will.

Mullah Omar's Taliban - the first and original group. Omar was adamant about not using suicide bombers and targeting civilians. I am afraid he lost that argument, first to Mullah Dadullah Lang, then to others. You are right of course on their strict view of the world, as well as the consequences of their Sharia Law courts. They still wish to keep things as of old, no schooling for girls, the Imam the principal person in the village, all as you so clearly stated. No kites, no music, all men must have bushy beards, no photos or drawings of people, and no sorcery. Worldwide, even social conservatives were horrified by punitive laws that made prisoners out of Afghan women.

Jaluladdin Haqqani - settle old scores from the past. As a former Warlord, and a direct enemy to Pacha Khan Zadren, he targets the Paktika, Paktya, Khost Provinces, as well as the City of Kabul. His primary aim is to destroy the current government, remove those with whom he is feuding and regain some sort of leadership post. All types of attacks are fair for his group. His sons, especially Siraj continue his fight. A great deal of his activities are Badal - from Pashtunwali.

Hekmatyar - the most dangerous and evil one. He would be an angry fundamentalist dressed in black, throwing acid in the faces of unveiled women and assassinating local tribal leaders that might rival his power. He would unfeelingly sacrifice peasants for his cause, rocket the helpless civilians mixed in with his enemies, and his ruthless ambition would prevent the creation of a new peace. He is all of these things. As the most educated of the group, the HIG is also the most dangerous. They are willing to sacrifice anyone for their ambition, and have done so.

As to the brutality exhibited by the Taliban, I always wonder how much, when taken in conjunction with the other insurgencies in the area (as you mention) this is the result of training by the Pakistan ISI. I am not sure, but as you note there seems to be a great deal of similarities. Thus I think the base training is all from the same manual. Which also explains its presence in places such as the Philippines....Abu Sayyef Group, named for the Afghan Warlord, trained in the region.

As to the future. I feel the biggest obstacle for Afghanistan is the lack of infrastructure, primarily electrical power. I also think the Taliban knows this, thus their preoccupation with the Kajaki Dam. With electrical power, life can continue after the sun sets, schools don't have to close for the winter months, life would improve drastically. The next step is an irrigation and flood control program. Distributing the run off from the snow melting in the mountains, providing it to farmers to increase their crop yield all enable the Afghan to improve their quality of life.

I will finish at this point, I am enjoying the discussion and look forward to you insight.

Rob

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What do you think about the cultural and religious aspect of Talibanism?

Dear Rob,
It is great, indeed.
Your positive insight is inspiring and educative. However:

You are right that Taliban are mainly active in the Pashtun community. But there are many similarities between the belief and approaches of the Taliban with similar groups, throughout the world. There are many who favor the same idea and patterns of behavior: fanaticism, rigidness, intolerance, hatred, violence, insolence, arrogance, etc.

It is clear that the Taliban have shown a lot deal of brutality and have opposed to all kinds of civil norms, but this is not limited and confined to them as the Pashtun insurgents. They are the same in Kashmir, in Yamen, in Darfur, in Philippine, in Iraq, in Pakistan, ...

I wonder if you could explain a bit more about the cultural and religious aspects of Talibanism and fanaticism. Don't you think that Taliban cannot be marginalized to only as wishing good government, providing security and safety? ... Taliban have not given such a pattern in their own six-years ruling (1995-2001), neither do they prove that claim in the areas that they are currently in semi control of. Do you think if they are right saying that with all suicidal attacks against civilian population? Do you think if they are right saying that with burning the schools, beheading the teachers, robbing women from their initial human rights, prejudice and discrimination against those who do not favor or support their types of worldview?

Looking forward to hearing more on the issue.

Regards
Aziz Royesh

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Taliban focus on the ethnic portions of the coutnry...

eply by Rob Dodson on April 19, 2010 at 10:09pm
Dear Aziz,

I will try to answer your questions as best I can. It is my belief that the US created a vacuum in addressing the needs of the people after we removed the Taliban. As a result, the people, especially those living in rural areas, remained outside our effort to rebuild the country. Their daily lives had not changed and when the Taliban moved back into the vacuum created, they began to suffer. I think most people are more interested in living their lives without fear. I am also sure that whoever gives them that security and safety they will support. This is generally true in all insurgencies. The ability to overcome an insurgency lies in the ability to form a strong government that addresses the needs of the population. If that doesn't exist, insurgencies tend to grow. This lack of a credible central government also hampers the development of police and military forces, something needed to counter the insurgency.

The Taliban continue to focus on the ethnic portions of the country that correspond to theirs. If you look at the districts under Taliban influence, they are generally Pashtu. This works for them and against them. It gives them a base from which to operate, but it drives them from the other ethnic groups.

I see the phenomenon of the Taliban as an organization that wishes to provide a government without corruption, providing security and safety. There is a price for this, an in most of the Pashtu areas the population are willing to pay it. I think they wish to re-establish themselves as the government, however, I am not completely sure that they are willing to incorporate the lands normally associated with the other ethnic groups.

I hope this helps,
Rob
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