Dear Rob,
I am sorry. I think I have completely forgotten to reply this post of yours. It seems that we both shifted to other groups and forgot our own!! However:
1) You are about the Pashtun fear of losing power. This is one of the characteristic of all totalitarian powers, especially those with ethnocentric bases. The Pashtun rulers have not only done nothing for the other ethnic communities, they have also been catastrophic for their own Pashtun groupings too. Two and a half centuries of militaristic war, looting, revenge, and monopoly over the political power has put a negative impact on their vision and patterns of behaviors.
2) The Western world has not much effort to understand the complexity of the Afghan issue. Perhaps it has not been so important for them. However, since their full engagement after the fall of the Taliban, they would need more attention on the realities of the ground.
3) King Zahir ruled the country for more than 40 years. His ruling was at a time when there were big influential rulers around: In Iran, Jordon, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Indonesia, Malysia, etc. While his counterparts were leading their respective countries towards a big civilized change, he was busy with hunting birds in the mountains, watching the fighting of the dogs, cocks, and enjoying his king-size life. He did not play a positive role in the time of resistance against the Soviets. He did only one good thing: he himself did not kill any of his opponents. Before him, his uncles were the real people behind the realm of power and they did horrifying things to the people. From the time that he got his control, the chain of killing stopped for a while. This is why most people compare his ruling with the successors and prefer that.
4) You are right that some of the foreigners have picked allies instead of solutions. But I think most of the blame goes to Afghans themselves. There is a lack of sane and positive role from the Afghan side. They are showing to be terribly irresponsible.
5) My concern is more on having a generation of responsible dedicated people. That can fill the vacuums. I have a fear that tomorrow when you decrease your attention in Afghanistan and return back home, the country would fall back at the tragically statues that held in the past. I think I had said this point before too: when you see the huge building with millions of dollars cost, but in front of that the road is drastically bumpy and there is no inclination to asphalt that, you would discover the sense of irresponsibility and tastelessness of the people. This needs to be changed. But how? … Let’s wait!
Perhaps we can debate on the solutions in our coming debates.
Aziz
Sunday, May 16, 2010
Thhreat to Pashtun donminance....
Dear Aziz,
It would appear then that the biggest issue now facing the Pashtun in Afghanistan is the threat to their previous dominance. It would mean that they would loose control of the country, which you have so rightly pointed out they have not done a very good job of managing. I find it somewhat interesting that the Western world still does not comprehend the consequences of their actions while trying to unify the country.
As a side, how did the non-Pasthun respond to the late king Zahir Shah? I have heard many conflicting stories. Although I know he had little real power in the country, he supposedly tried to appeal to the greater population.
I agree that all participants need to change, however, I am not sure, with the amount of outside players currently in Afghanistan, that will happen. It appears that some of the international community has picked allies instead of solutions. The prime example is the Germans, who will only operate in the north. This would suggest they find the Tajik to be a group whose interest they would advocate, thus giving the Tajiks the sense they can demand more than they should. Unfortunately I fear the Hazara would be the minority group.
Do you sense that there are groups who wish to establish such alliances?
Thanks,
Rob
It would appear then that the biggest issue now facing the Pashtun in Afghanistan is the threat to their previous dominance. It would mean that they would loose control of the country, which you have so rightly pointed out they have not done a very good job of managing. I find it somewhat interesting that the Western world still does not comprehend the consequences of their actions while trying to unify the country.
As a side, how did the non-Pasthun respond to the late king Zahir Shah? I have heard many conflicting stories. Although I know he had little real power in the country, he supposedly tried to appeal to the greater population.
I agree that all participants need to change, however, I am not sure, with the amount of outside players currently in Afghanistan, that will happen. It appears that some of the international community has picked allies instead of solutions. The prime example is the Germans, who will only operate in the north. This would suggest they find the Tajik to be a group whose interest they would advocate, thus giving the Tajiks the sense they can demand more than they should. Unfortunately I fear the Hazara would be the minority group.
Do you sense that there are groups who wish to establish such alliances?
Thanks,
Rob
Sectarism is enhancing the isolation of the groups...
Dear Rob,
1) Yes, one of the reasons for Pashtuns rigidity seems to be their Pakhtunwali. They have a huge respect to their Pakhtunwali customs and code of rules. But it would not be fair to call that as an exclusive characteristics of the Pashutn community. In my previous emails I pointed that nearly all Afghan ethnic communities have been/are somehow living with tribal sensitivities. The others, especially the Hazaras, have been more flexible in terms of their changing, because of many reasons. You can count on the historical prejudice and discrimination against Hazaras as one of the reasons for their flexibility to adapt changes. Pashtuns are now afraid of losing the power which may result in their further backward status.
I want to insist that in our world no one can live and sustain as an island. Sectarism in all its forms, be religious or ethnical, is enhancing the isolation of the groups. I don’t feel if one can underestimate the negative role of Pashtun intellectual and political groups in fueling the sectarian sensitivities of the Pashtun community. They usually talk in a negative deviating manner about the past and about the realities. For example they are insisting on being independent and anti-foreigners in a negative way. They rarely explain the inter-connected relations between the world communities. They always refer to the history in a way that preaches hatred and hostilities against the foreigners. It may good in some places, but it caused lots of misunderstanding and misbehaviors in lots of other cases.
One thing is clear: no one is right in an exclusive way. You can find the truth with speaking and discussing the realities from different perspectives. This is a good practice. One has to criticize the past in a scientific manner. You cannot change the past, but you can turn it into enlightening lessons. The past rulers have gone, good or bad. The question is how to live in our time and how to deal with all the exigencies of our own time.
Pashtuns do need to change their views and behaviors, the same as Hazaras and others. Perhaps all of us have big responsibilities in this regard.
Aziz Royesh
1) Yes, one of the reasons for Pashtuns rigidity seems to be their Pakhtunwali. They have a huge respect to their Pakhtunwali customs and code of rules. But it would not be fair to call that as an exclusive characteristics of the Pashutn community. In my previous emails I pointed that nearly all Afghan ethnic communities have been/are somehow living with tribal sensitivities. The others, especially the Hazaras, have been more flexible in terms of their changing, because of many reasons. You can count on the historical prejudice and discrimination against Hazaras as one of the reasons for their flexibility to adapt changes. Pashtuns are now afraid of losing the power which may result in their further backward status.
I want to insist that in our world no one can live and sustain as an island. Sectarism in all its forms, be religious or ethnical, is enhancing the isolation of the groups. I don’t feel if one can underestimate the negative role of Pashtun intellectual and political groups in fueling the sectarian sensitivities of the Pashtun community. They usually talk in a negative deviating manner about the past and about the realities. For example they are insisting on being independent and anti-foreigners in a negative way. They rarely explain the inter-connected relations between the world communities. They always refer to the history in a way that preaches hatred and hostilities against the foreigners. It may good in some places, but it caused lots of misunderstanding and misbehaviors in lots of other cases.
One thing is clear: no one is right in an exclusive way. You can find the truth with speaking and discussing the realities from different perspectives. This is a good practice. One has to criticize the past in a scientific manner. You cannot change the past, but you can turn it into enlightening lessons. The past rulers have gone, good or bad. The question is how to live in our time and how to deal with all the exigencies of our own time.
Pashtuns do need to change their views and behaviors, the same as Hazaras and others. Perhaps all of us have big responsibilities in this regard.
Aziz Royesh
There exists extremists in both groups....
Dear Aziz,
Thank you for the very good insight. It goes to show that the problems that exist in Afghanistan cannot be distilled down to something simple as is the West continually tries to do. We Westerners generally like things simple so we can better understand them. It would be better for us to understand the people and context of the situation, while complicated, it would at least help us to help you better.
As to the Pasthun, it would appear that Paktoonwali actually holds them back from furthering their progress in a modern world. Is that a fair statement?
Afghanistan has been a key between the East and West for centuries. The Silk Road met with the European trade routes in Afghanistan. The people have been conquered as you not and subject to tremendous outside pressures for generations. As the Pasthun have generally been the power, their "selling out" of the country because of their perceived lack of resources and value has not allowed the full integration of all the Afghan peoples from what I have been able to read.
The West's lack of understanding is the result that we have never looked at Afghan history. Until this conflict I would suggest that most Americans did not even know the country existed. It has also astounded me that the works by Louis and Nancy Dupree, Sir Olaf Caroe, Hassan Kakar, Charles Allen, and James Spainare unknown to the vast majority. We know of the Soviet intervention but not many people understand what surrounded it, the political climate in Kabul or what happened after the Soviets withdrew. I am always amazed to find people who don't know what have during the 30 years of conflict that has gone on in Afghanistan or the impact of that conflict on at least two generations of Afghans.
I appreciate your insight about the Sunni and Shiite. I concur with the fact that there exists extremists in both groups, just as there exists extremists in almost ever grouping of people in the world. We see the same in religious circles here too, as those who standfast to views and dogma without fully understanding the position. I am not sure that we can overcome that and as a result we will continue to find conflict when intolerance is practiced. This should mean that tolerance is necessarily extended to all thinking, it is striking the balance that we find as difficult as you in Afghanistan.
Thank you again,
Rob
Thank you for the very good insight. It goes to show that the problems that exist in Afghanistan cannot be distilled down to something simple as is the West continually tries to do. We Westerners generally like things simple so we can better understand them. It would be better for us to understand the people and context of the situation, while complicated, it would at least help us to help you better.
As to the Pasthun, it would appear that Paktoonwali actually holds them back from furthering their progress in a modern world. Is that a fair statement?
Afghanistan has been a key between the East and West for centuries. The Silk Road met with the European trade routes in Afghanistan. The people have been conquered as you not and subject to tremendous outside pressures for generations. As the Pasthun have generally been the power, their "selling out" of the country because of their perceived lack of resources and value has not allowed the full integration of all the Afghan peoples from what I have been able to read.
The West's lack of understanding is the result that we have never looked at Afghan history. Until this conflict I would suggest that most Americans did not even know the country existed. It has also astounded me that the works by Louis and Nancy Dupree, Sir Olaf Caroe, Hassan Kakar, Charles Allen, and James Spainare unknown to the vast majority. We know of the Soviet intervention but not many people understand what surrounded it, the political climate in Kabul or what happened after the Soviets withdrew. I am always amazed to find people who don't know what have during the 30 years of conflict that has gone on in Afghanistan or the impact of that conflict on at least two generations of Afghans.
I appreciate your insight about the Sunni and Shiite. I concur with the fact that there exists extremists in both groups, just as there exists extremists in almost ever grouping of people in the world. We see the same in religious circles here too, as those who standfast to views and dogma without fully understanding the position. I am not sure that we can overcome that and as a result we will continue to find conflict when intolerance is practiced. This should mean that tolerance is necessarily extended to all thinking, it is striking the balance that we find as difficult as you in Afghanistan.
Thank you again,
Rob
Individualism can develop only among progressive communities...
Dear Rob,
1) It seems normal in the backward communities that people would try to hide/change their original identity. Individualism can develop only among progressive communities. Individual rights and dignity is the evidence of self awareness. In tribal communities people judge themselves in the eyes of the others not with their own criteria. Most of the Hazaras would change their identity, even their names, merely to hide their Hazara lineage. Hazara was a term of crime and insult throughout the century.
This was the same for the Pashtun. Most of literate educated Pashtuns would call themselves as Farsi-speaking or urban to escape their Pashtun lineage. Look at the colloquial titles of the Afghan ethnic communities: Hazara-e-Khar (the donkey Hazara), Hazara-e-Moshkhor (the mouse-eater Hazara), Uzbek Kala Kham (raw-minded Uzbek), Awghan-e-Ghool (the ogre/hobgoblin/Ghoul Pashtun). Or the language of Pashtu was named as the language of fart. This unfortunate phenomenon was mostly because of linguistic insults by urban Farsi-speaking population.
Hence, it was natural for most of the Pashtuns as well to hide their ethnical identity and take another guise on themselves. Ismaiel khan and Atta Noor are only the least examples.
For the Hazaras, it is only the recent years that they have taken pride on themselves. One of the famous quotes of Abdul Ali Mazari, the Hazara leader, was that he wished Hazara not to be a crime! Hazaras would call themselves as Tajiks, Pashtuns, Sayeds, Bayats and stuff like that.
2) You are right that the history of Pashtuns are mostly that of a militaristic one. That also a tribal militarism. The culture of revenge, hatred, looting, levying, taking pride of fighting, … these are the characteristics of tribal militarism. Pashtuns have been the defenders of the country, but all the rulers who have sold the country have also been Pashtun. You know that monopoly over political power in the backward countries cannot continue without depending on the foreigners. Only democratic regimes can call themselves independent. Non-democratic regimes either kill their people or surrender to the foreigners. Calling for being independent or defenders in the face of war and hatred can mostly be as a means of blackmailing. The situation in the South is overtly a blackmailing attempt. They are trying to blackmail both national and international fellows. This can be another characteristic of the tribal militarism: pay toll or I would kill you!
3) The Pashtuns of the north have double problems: 1) they have to follow all the polities of their southern brethren. 2) as they have been settled in the north by force and military might, they always feel themselves vulnerable in front of their northern neighbors who would at any time revenge and push them back to the south. The hostility of General Dostom and some prominent Tajik figures against Pashtuns are the indications of that fear. Ahmad Shah Masould did a lot of ethnic-pressuring attempt against northern Pashtuns. The literacy rate among northern is as low as among the southern. Now, Taliban have great influence among them and they have shown no resentment towards Talibanism at all.
4) We have lots of great Sunni scholars who have tried to interpret Islam and the holy text with a liberal perspective. But they have rarely succeeded to cross their message and ideas deep into the grassroots level of the communities. You can name Iqbal Lahori, Nasr Hamid Abuzaid from Agypt, Mohammad Arkon, and the likes. They are some exceptionally great Sunni scholars. But they have not managed to cross their views to the community. While, in the Shiite community the debate and discourses on very critical Islamic issues have been normal throughout the history. You have thousands of books among the Shiites who are discussing very serious religious issues. These books are easily found in all the Shiite families. Of course, there are lots of fanatical rigid-minded clerics among the Shiite as well. You cannot ignore the being of Khamenei or his folk in Iran. Just two weeks ago an Iranian Ayatullah said in the Friday prayers that the earth quake is because of the bad Hijabs of the women and the increase of adultery!! This is true. But you have tens of great clergies who denounce such superstitious claims and preach scientific findings. This is the reason that Shiites are comparatively progressive in their views and behaviors. Nonetheless, it should not lead us into stereotypical judgments at all.
Regards
Aziz Royesh
1) It seems normal in the backward communities that people would try to hide/change their original identity. Individualism can develop only among progressive communities. Individual rights and dignity is the evidence of self awareness. In tribal communities people judge themselves in the eyes of the others not with their own criteria. Most of the Hazaras would change their identity, even their names, merely to hide their Hazara lineage. Hazara was a term of crime and insult throughout the century.
This was the same for the Pashtun. Most of literate educated Pashtuns would call themselves as Farsi-speaking or urban to escape their Pashtun lineage. Look at the colloquial titles of the Afghan ethnic communities: Hazara-e-Khar (the donkey Hazara), Hazara-e-Moshkhor (the mouse-eater Hazara), Uzbek Kala Kham (raw-minded Uzbek), Awghan-e-Ghool (the ogre/hobgoblin/Ghoul Pashtun). Or the language of Pashtu was named as the language of fart. This unfortunate phenomenon was mostly because of linguistic insults by urban Farsi-speaking population.
Hence, it was natural for most of the Pashtuns as well to hide their ethnical identity and take another guise on themselves. Ismaiel khan and Atta Noor are only the least examples.
For the Hazaras, it is only the recent years that they have taken pride on themselves. One of the famous quotes of Abdul Ali Mazari, the Hazara leader, was that he wished Hazara not to be a crime! Hazaras would call themselves as Tajiks, Pashtuns, Sayeds, Bayats and stuff like that.
2) You are right that the history of Pashtuns are mostly that of a militaristic one. That also a tribal militarism. The culture of revenge, hatred, looting, levying, taking pride of fighting, … these are the characteristics of tribal militarism. Pashtuns have been the defenders of the country, but all the rulers who have sold the country have also been Pashtun. You know that monopoly over political power in the backward countries cannot continue without depending on the foreigners. Only democratic regimes can call themselves independent. Non-democratic regimes either kill their people or surrender to the foreigners. Calling for being independent or defenders in the face of war and hatred can mostly be as a means of blackmailing. The situation in the South is overtly a blackmailing attempt. They are trying to blackmail both national and international fellows. This can be another characteristic of the tribal militarism: pay toll or I would kill you!
3) The Pashtuns of the north have double problems: 1) they have to follow all the polities of their southern brethren. 2) as they have been settled in the north by force and military might, they always feel themselves vulnerable in front of their northern neighbors who would at any time revenge and push them back to the south. The hostility of General Dostom and some prominent Tajik figures against Pashtuns are the indications of that fear. Ahmad Shah Masould did a lot of ethnic-pressuring attempt against northern Pashtuns. The literacy rate among northern is as low as among the southern. Now, Taliban have great influence among them and they have shown no resentment towards Talibanism at all.
4) We have lots of great Sunni scholars who have tried to interpret Islam and the holy text with a liberal perspective. But they have rarely succeeded to cross their message and ideas deep into the grassroots level of the communities. You can name Iqbal Lahori, Nasr Hamid Abuzaid from Agypt, Mohammad Arkon, and the likes. They are some exceptionally great Sunni scholars. But they have not managed to cross their views to the community. While, in the Shiite community the debate and discourses on very critical Islamic issues have been normal throughout the history. You have thousands of books among the Shiites who are discussing very serious religious issues. These books are easily found in all the Shiite families. Of course, there are lots of fanatical rigid-minded clerics among the Shiite as well. You cannot ignore the being of Khamenei or his folk in Iran. Just two weeks ago an Iranian Ayatullah said in the Friday prayers that the earth quake is because of the bad Hijabs of the women and the increase of adultery!! This is true. But you have tens of great clergies who denounce such superstitious claims and preach scientific findings. This is the reason that Shiites are comparatively progressive in their views and behaviors. Nonetheless, it should not lead us into stereotypical judgments at all.
Regards
Aziz Royesh
Pashtuns have been militants for centuries...
Dear Aziz,
Your English is very good. I am glad that you are participating, although I must say you are providing much more depth to the conversation than I am. I am very appreciative of your answers though.
Before I begin, you are right, Bamyan is a very beautiful place. I used the Buddha statues because, unfortunately, that is what most of the Western World associates with the province. People do not know about the blue lakes, the very good climate, the friendly people, or the overall beauty of the Province. I shall add some more pictures to my album for people to see.
Also, I was not aware that Dr. Spanta was a Tahiri. I had heard something about Atta Mohammad Noor, and the problems between him and General Dostum.
It is interesting that there exists a grouping within the Pashtun that prefer to distance themselves from the crowd so to speak. If we can find why the Pashtun wishes to remain stuck in time we may be able to overcome their zealous fighting mentality. I am not sure it would be successful though. History shows that the Pashtun has been militant for a few centuries and that they have often seen themselves as the defender of the country. This still does not explain why they choose to remain backward.
From your descriptions, the Hazara, Tajik, Uzbek and Tahiri all place an emphasis on bettering their social condition, often through education and cultural advancement. This is the sign of a strong nation, provides for national pride and provides the ability to live and cooperate.
For those pockets of Pashtu that live in the North, do the they share the same desires as their neighbors or do they hold to the same stubbornness of the people who live in the South?
I have noticed the Shiite seem to be more focused on developing their abilities than the Sunni. The Sunni appear to want Allah to provide everything and they do little in return. If this mindset is true, can it be the reason that the Pashtun has not advanced as the rest of the country?
Look forward to your insight,
Regards,
Rob
Your English is very good. I am glad that you are participating, although I must say you are providing much more depth to the conversation than I am. I am very appreciative of your answers though.
Before I begin, you are right, Bamyan is a very beautiful place. I used the Buddha statues because, unfortunately, that is what most of the Western World associates with the province. People do not know about the blue lakes, the very good climate, the friendly people, or the overall beauty of the Province. I shall add some more pictures to my album for people to see.
Also, I was not aware that Dr. Spanta was a Tahiri. I had heard something about Atta Mohammad Noor, and the problems between him and General Dostum.
It is interesting that there exists a grouping within the Pashtun that prefer to distance themselves from the crowd so to speak. If we can find why the Pashtun wishes to remain stuck in time we may be able to overcome their zealous fighting mentality. I am not sure it would be successful though. History shows that the Pashtun has been militant for a few centuries and that they have often seen themselves as the defender of the country. This still does not explain why they choose to remain backward.
From your descriptions, the Hazara, Tajik, Uzbek and Tahiri all place an emphasis on bettering their social condition, often through education and cultural advancement. This is the sign of a strong nation, provides for national pride and provides the ability to live and cooperate.
For those pockets of Pashtu that live in the North, do the they share the same desires as their neighbors or do they hold to the same stubbornness of the people who live in the South?
I have noticed the Shiite seem to be more focused on developing their abilities than the Sunni. The Sunni appear to want Allah to provide everything and they do little in return. If this mindset is true, can it be the reason that the Pashtun has not advanced as the rest of the country?
Look forward to your insight,
Regards,
Rob
The conceptual gap which has detached the South from the world...
Dear Rob,
Yes, the Tajiks and Uzbeks do share the same effort. Meanwhile, there are some differences too:
1) The Tajiks, as you have mentioned, mostly look at their military might to gain privileges. There are also good intentions on education in the Tajik community. One should remember that the Tajiks enjoyed a better socio-political status in the past compared to the Hazaras and Uzbeks. They mostly formed the beurocratic structure of the political system and the regime did not show much resentment towards them. Now their civic and cultural effort is not as serious as the Hazaras who find no better means other than effort and education.
2) The Uzbeks have the main problem of language. They are too backward in terms of their linguistic possibilities. They don’t have negative reaction to any modern norms of life. Their link with Turkey has also helped them absorb most of the urban system of values. Their other problem is the exclusive ruling of General Dostum, who has nothing other than his military tongue. The level of literacy is also too low in the Uzbek community.
3) In Hirat, Iranians have great influence, mostly due to their close border and shared language. Most of the Hirati people do travel to Iran and have lots of common interests with their Iranian neighbors. Hirat is a mixed-ethnic province. Some of the districts are Pashtuns and some Persian-speaking people. In the city, there are Hazaras. but there are a huge number of non-Hazara Shiites who are mainly from the Iranian origins. There is an ethnic community which is called Tahirian. They speak Farsi, but do not regard themselves as Tajiks. Recently, the number of Hazaras has increased because most of the repatriates from Iran have preferred to settle in Hirat. Some other Hazaras who have fled the central highlands have also gone to Hirat.
4) Iranian’s government has not a good feeling towards Hazaras, especially after the time of Abdul Ali Mazari, the Hazara leader who refused to follow the pressures of Iran to back Masoud in the time of the civil strife (1992-1994). Iran feels that the Hazaras are not following much of their religious authority. The education which Iranian regime is promoting is an ideological one. The Hazaras are now mostly following secular education and even in the central highlands the numbers of Madrasas are decreasing and less people send their kids to get religious lessons.
However, Iran is trying a lot to support religious schools and preach sectarian issues. They try to maintain their influence and one cannot claim that their effort is totally futile and zero.
5) The people in the south seem happy with their way of life. But all have faced with a complicated puzzle with them. Seemingly there is a huge conceptual gap dividing them with the whole world. They cannot understand what is going around and the others cannot make them understand what is for their good and what is not. You are spending your tax on building the schools, the other day they burn the school and ask you to rebuild it along with providing more assistance to guard it! This seems mostly as a joke, but no one really knows what to do. They have taken all as their hostage! They are blackmailing, they are intimidating, they are shouting, they are killing, … still every one is owing to them!
Is it too ironical?
best
Yes, the Tajiks and Uzbeks do share the same effort. Meanwhile, there are some differences too:
1) The Tajiks, as you have mentioned, mostly look at their military might to gain privileges. There are also good intentions on education in the Tajik community. One should remember that the Tajiks enjoyed a better socio-political status in the past compared to the Hazaras and Uzbeks. They mostly formed the beurocratic structure of the political system and the regime did not show much resentment towards them. Now their civic and cultural effort is not as serious as the Hazaras who find no better means other than effort and education.
2) The Uzbeks have the main problem of language. They are too backward in terms of their linguistic possibilities. They don’t have negative reaction to any modern norms of life. Their link with Turkey has also helped them absorb most of the urban system of values. Their other problem is the exclusive ruling of General Dostum, who has nothing other than his military tongue. The level of literacy is also too low in the Uzbek community.
3) In Hirat, Iranians have great influence, mostly due to their close border and shared language. Most of the Hirati people do travel to Iran and have lots of common interests with their Iranian neighbors. Hirat is a mixed-ethnic province. Some of the districts are Pashtuns and some Persian-speaking people. In the city, there are Hazaras. but there are a huge number of non-Hazara Shiites who are mainly from the Iranian origins. There is an ethnic community which is called Tahirian. They speak Farsi, but do not regard themselves as Tajiks. Recently, the number of Hazaras has increased because most of the repatriates from Iran have preferred to settle in Hirat. Some other Hazaras who have fled the central highlands have also gone to Hirat.
4) Iranian’s government has not a good feeling towards Hazaras, especially after the time of Abdul Ali Mazari, the Hazara leader who refused to follow the pressures of Iran to back Masoud in the time of the civil strife (1992-1994). Iran feels that the Hazaras are not following much of their religious authority. The education which Iranian regime is promoting is an ideological one. The Hazaras are now mostly following secular education and even in the central highlands the numbers of Madrasas are decreasing and less people send their kids to get religious lessons.
However, Iran is trying a lot to support religious schools and preach sectarian issues. They try to maintain their influence and one cannot claim that their effort is totally futile and zero.
5) The people in the south seem happy with their way of life. But all have faced with a complicated puzzle with them. Seemingly there is a huge conceptual gap dividing them with the whole world. They cannot understand what is going around and the others cannot make them understand what is for their good and what is not. You are spending your tax on building the schools, the other day they burn the school and ask you to rebuild it along with providing more assistance to guard it! This seems mostly as a joke, but no one really knows what to do. They have taken all as their hostage! They are blackmailing, they are intimidating, they are shouting, they are killing, … still every one is owing to them!
Is it too ironical?
best
Is there any way to overcome the situtation in the South?...
Dear Aziz,
Thank you for the picture and comments. It is commendable that there are progressive groups within Afghanistan who wish to move forward despite the hardships that are placed in the way of that effort.
I am interested to know if the Tajiks and Uzbeks share any of the same effort to make their life better as does the Hazara. I know that often the Tajiks use their base of power (primarily the military) to advance their cause, but do they share the same interest in further education as a means of making their lives stronger?
As a side note, I have heard many different stories about the situation of Herat and the support provided by Iran. My question is, what is the primary ethnic makeup of Herat City and Province? The Iranians have a great interest in education, do Hazaras participate in that effort?
What do you feel is the reason that the south has not progressed in their development? Is there a way to overcome their resistance or are they happy with their status in life?
Thank you again.
By the way, was the picture taken at Dubai Airport?
Rob
Thank you for the picture and comments. It is commendable that there are progressive groups within Afghanistan who wish to move forward despite the hardships that are placed in the way of that effort.
I am interested to know if the Tajiks and Uzbeks share any of the same effort to make their life better as does the Hazara. I know that often the Tajiks use their base of power (primarily the military) to advance their cause, but do they share the same interest in further education as a means of making their lives stronger?
As a side note, I have heard many different stories about the situation of Herat and the support provided by Iran. My question is, what is the primary ethnic makeup of Herat City and Province? The Iranians have a great interest in education, do Hazaras participate in that effort?
What do you feel is the reason that the south has not progressed in their development? Is there a way to overcome their resistance or are they happy with their status in life?
Thank you again.
By the way, was the picture taken at Dubai Airport?
Rob
education is the main key to better future...
Dear Rob,
Thanks for the kind note. I am much more delighted to know that you are having an online course. It is so inspiring.
Your statement about the Hazaras' interest to education and a better standard of life is right. They feel that education is the main key to their better future. They don't have access in high position of authority. They lack enough economic facilities to get into successful competition in the market. They have suffered a lot from their military resistance. Now the only means which seems rational and affordable for them is education. I don't know if it would be referred to their cultural sense too. Hazaras are mostly noted with tow peculiarities: one, they can easily get the points and messages. Two, they can easily get together and become organized. Whenever there has been a good sensible message, they have absorbed that. I can experience this in my school and civic activities too. For six years after the fall of the fall of the Taliban, we had a co-education system in the school and boys and girls attended mixed classes with no any negative reaction from the families. The families used to send their daughters even at the ages of 18 and 20 to start just from grade one in a class where half of the classmates were boys. When the ministry insisted to separate classes according to genders, we maintained some of our mixed programs and activities and we can see the good result of their interactions in their mentality and psychology.
Now it is interesting to know that in the south, you pay your tax to build a school for the people who burn it just the other day. Now, they even ask for more money to not only rebuild the burnt school but also to guard it! While in the Hazara regions, there has been the least assistance, however, the people do not have a single negative reaction. You can easily make a foot tour throughout Hazara region with no any single fear of being intimidated, let alone to be harmed. I have tens of western fellows, men and women, who visit the school in Kabul with no any bodyguard or pre-arranged security. Last year, an American lady for the American University of Afghanistan used to come to school regularly every Thursday to have a reading circle with the students. She never said any word to having been scared of anything.
Thanks for the kind note. I am much more delighted to know that you are having an online course. It is so inspiring.
Your statement about the Hazaras' interest to education and a better standard of life is right. They feel that education is the main key to their better future. They don't have access in high position of authority. They lack enough economic facilities to get into successful competition in the market. They have suffered a lot from their military resistance. Now the only means which seems rational and affordable for them is education. I don't know if it would be referred to their cultural sense too. Hazaras are mostly noted with tow peculiarities: one, they can easily get the points and messages. Two, they can easily get together and become organized. Whenever there has been a good sensible message, they have absorbed that. I can experience this in my school and civic activities too. For six years after the fall of the fall of the Taliban, we had a co-education system in the school and boys and girls attended mixed classes with no any negative reaction from the families. The families used to send their daughters even at the ages of 18 and 20 to start just from grade one in a class where half of the classmates were boys. When the ministry insisted to separate classes according to genders, we maintained some of our mixed programs and activities and we can see the good result of their interactions in their mentality and psychology.
Now it is interesting to know that in the south, you pay your tax to build a school for the people who burn it just the other day. Now, they even ask for more money to not only rebuild the burnt school but also to guard it! While in the Hazara regions, there has been the least assistance, however, the people do not have a single negative reaction. You can easily make a foot tour throughout Hazara region with no any single fear of being intimidated, let alone to be harmed. I have tens of western fellows, men and women, who visit the school in Kabul with no any bodyguard or pre-arranged security. Last year, an American lady for the American University of Afghanistan used to come to school regularly every Thursday to have a reading circle with the students. She never said any word to having been scared of anything.
Hazaras focused on education....
Rob Dodson said:
Dear Aziz,
I apologize for the delay in responding. I just started an online College Course and needed to get some immediate class work finished.
What I find interesting is the fact the Hazara are able to adapt while the remainder still seem to me to be caught in time. Is there an explanation for this or have I misjudged something?
Responding to your post, I knew that there were a large number of Hazara that supported the Communists but did not understand that it was most of the Hazara intelligentsia. But after reflection, it makes some sense to me, it was the best way to equalize their standing in the country.
Something I would be curious about, from my exposure to working with Hazara, they seem to be more focused and intent on the furthering of their education, standard of living, and so forth; more so than any other group I have worked with. Is this a fair statement?
Look forward to your response,
Rob
Dear Aziz,
I apologize for the delay in responding. I just started an online College Course and needed to get some immediate class work finished.
What I find interesting is the fact the Hazara are able to adapt while the remainder still seem to me to be caught in time. Is there an explanation for this or have I misjudged something?
Responding to your post, I knew that there were a large number of Hazara that supported the Communists but did not understand that it was most of the Hazara intelligentsia. But after reflection, it makes some sense to me, it was the best way to equalize their standing in the country.
Something I would be curious about, from my exposure to working with Hazara, they seem to be more focused and intent on the furthering of their education, standard of living, and so forth; more so than any other group I have worked with. Is this a fair statement?
Look forward to your response,
Rob
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